For the record, the only reason I’ve been here for the last two months has been Tiff. She urged me to hold off on walking away until after the election. She’s still fulfilling that role. I thought it might be helpful to everyone, and an appreciative nod to her, to show our conversation yesterday and where we are; and also to demonstrate that I’m not always the person with the calmest of temperaments.
AM: I’m far too annoyed to address this rationally at the moment.
We’ll see how I’m doing tonight, but I can currently make no guarantees about contributing an Owl… or other articles moving forward.
T: Okay.
AM: Oh, and apparently <person> is male, so I was wrong on that.
But they actually had the gall to say that they don’t spread hate about anyone on the board… as if that mattered, because it is fundamentally and functionally contrary to any attempts to reach out and get conversation from various sides…. which was the exact reason I didn’t argue back against anyone on that Personal Responsibility thread from Friday; I thought we were trying to hear different opinions and work toward fixing problems.
I’m not here to gripe and wallow in my damned misery and hate people. That’s not helpful, and it’s certainly nothing I can point to and be proud to be a part of.
T: I’m trying to figure out how to word my question to you. I get the removing of, or debunking of misinformation. But my question is, how to you figure we address their emotions, regarding how betrayed they feel by the R’s. I understand how to debunk the fake posts, or memes, but how do you expect to change that? Because I’m not sure any of us can. I don’t want to forgive the R’s either, especially, leadership R’s. The ones we can prop up, like Weld, he holds no power inside the R party right now. So, I’m truly asking what you think we can do to make them move on at your pace, and not their own.
AM: I’ve spoken to them. That’s all I can do. If they want to dwell, they can dwell…. that’s up to them. But my goal has always been to move forward and try to game out positive solutions, then to leverage the large number of people here into community action by dint of good ideas brought forth and shared among us. That was what I always saw as the potential strength of The Right Scoop, back in 2016, and it’s what I’ve said since the beginning both there and here.
I never had desire to be a reporter, and my opinion columns mostly came about because Steve wasn’t doing his anymore and I thought a gap needed to be filled. I like analysis and esoteric information. Those are my fortes. But I was, and am, willing to step in and do what seems necessary.
T: I’m not suggesting you change your style of writing or what you like to do, to appease them.
AM: If people don’t want what I’m offering, that’s as may be… I tried. But I don’t see a reason to put hours in every day on behalf of something that I can’t show anyone I know. When we first started this, I promoted it to everyone I knew and even dropped business cards in various cities as advertisements.
T: That’s not why I asked the question I did. My point is, in the comment section, who do you propose we get them to move forward as you’d like them too?
AM: As it stands, I can’t admit to anyone I write for it. I can ask. I’ve done that. I also don’t want to be that whiny person who demands everyone do things his or her way. I thought that putting a line down… no generalized hatemongering… would be enough. And for the most part, it seems to have been.
T: I guess, I don’t understand why what some people are saying in the comment section, would make you less proud of the work you do? Unless of course, those comments are saying negative things about what you are writing. Like the troll tried to call at <MsMaryLou>, which was not acceptable.
AM: Oh, I don’t really care about that side of things. It’s more of the “look at whom I’m associated with.” As far as <MsMaryLou>’s stuff… well, personally, I roll my eyes at some of the mistakes that get through, but I also know that she single-passes and that she’s writing in the middle of the night after exhausting days. But the general structure is always sound, and I can easily get defensive on her, or for your writing, or Beth’s, or anyone else who contributes. But I do feel some level of culpability in that I’m associating with the people in the comment section. That said, you’re right in that most people HAVE moved on from the general hatemongering, and I’ve been very pleased to see that the reflexive support of Biden I feared hasn’t manifested.
T: I’m just trying to understand why <person>’s comments, which haven’t really changed much in two years, would drive you away from doing your own articles.
AM: Because they haven’t changed much in two years, they’ve just gotten worse… and that’s why I’ve now spent more than a year not being able to tell anyone I write for this site. That’s a long time of spinning the wheels.
T: But see that’s what I don’t understand. Why can’t you tell people you write here, because of <person>’s own thoughts, typically expressed on open threads…
AM: Because it’s been a miasma of hate, and most of the people I know are Republicans who weren’t sure on Trump.
T: It’s not as if we can’t see you push back I mean.
AM: This place would have just cemented their view that everyone against Trump was just a reactionary hater. And now, finally, we can get past that…. and I’m seeing that type of crap directed at Republicans in general.
T: But the R’s deserve it, those in the House and Senate. They earned it.
That’s my point.
AM: Agreed!
T: It seems to me, you want <person> to post a way you like and can agree with. I’m not trying to be mean, or obtuse.
AM: Okay.
T: I’m just saying, aside beyond the obvious, lies, in memes, which I agree, we should not allow to stand. If he hates republicans, how is that a bad reflection on you, because it’s obvious in your writings, and comments, that you aren’t coming from that place of hate. That you would like to grow the republicans back. I get it.
AM: Actually, I don’t want to grow the Republicans back.
T: Well, the 3rd party. True. With actual republicans and not trumpism.
AM: I want a third party. I’m just not sure how it can get going. That was the entire reason I posted a beg-request to everyone, seeking ideas for how to do that.
T: I just don’t want you to think your work is pointless, it’s not. It’s like me, I don’t at this point anymore, write for the blenders that comment. Haven’t for over a year. Because some just don’t read it. And that’s fine it doesn’t make we feel now, bad, or upset, unless it’s the first comment. because then I’m like, it’s obvious you read zero.
AM: You’re right about that, but the thing is, you write to inform. That’s it. You present the news, you step away, you’ve done your job and you have something to be proud of. If some people are too foolish to take advantage of what you’ve done, that’s on them.
I’m writing to mobilize and to promote opinions based on information or context that people might not have previously considered. I don’t expect everyone to agree (although I obviously hope many will.) But in that scenario, the overwhelming measure of opinions on the site does reflect back toward me. I could wave it off as my being a gadfly or contrary opinion; I’ve had that role in the past and relished it, actually. But in this case I’m one of three dominant voices of the site and the only one that’s regularly focused on opinion. So I am very much left with a feeling that association is critical, and the comment section, the general sway of it, does matter to me. That’s become more irritating with my shift to working from home, where I get to see it every day, all day.
Worse, the “all Republicans are evil” crap is exactly the sort of thing that got us where we are in the first place. And it’s what <MsMaryLou> has been hammering, for more than a year, that the Russians used to further their interests.
“I don’t care if it’s helping our enemies! I want to say it!” seems like it’s more than a little counterproductive, and the exact mentality we’ve been mocking among the anti-maskers.
T: But the issue goes back to what I asked. What’s the solution to it?
AM: My hope? Tell them about it. Tell them what the problem is and expect them, as rational adults, to step up.
T: Because I don’t at this time see a viable solution unless we remove them.
Which I’m not in favor of. I’m just saying that seems the only short term solution. It takes time for people to process stuff, takes time and distance for things to have more rational discussions.
AM: Hell, I don’t even want that. What I want is for others who see this to call the others out, in a friendly fashion… which is exactly what <person2> did today, and what <person3> did the other day when <person4> was stressed and talking about killing people. He didn’t attack, <person3> just said that he was concerned.
Actual civil conversation, between people who generally like each other and want to discuss things as adults. And absolutely not turning a blind eye to questionable stances because we like the people… which, in turn, is pretty much what we’ve been demanding of the Republican and Democrat politicians alike.
Here: I’ve got an idea. Something based off of what <MsMaryLou> and I have discussed in the past, how simply hearing some of the car discussions back and forth between us might be helpful to a whole lot of people.
What would you think of me cutting & pasting this conversation, minus actual names and with any other edits you might like, for a piece tomorrow? Because I guarantee this conversation is better thought out from both sides than most of them are considering right now.
T: I say go for it. I mean I’m not sure how it would read, in print, but that’s just cause it’s still early and I’m listening to the Michigan board thingy in the back ground.
AM: Okay, I’ll do that, and I’ll do tonight’s Owl, and we’ll see how things go from there.
…………………………
So, that was the discussion yesterday morning. I was angry, which may come through in the reading of it because I wasn’t presenting things in the most methodical of ways and I even “overtalked” Tiff at some points. Variations of that discussion have occurred for weeks now.
I like the people here, and I respect them… both writers and posters. And I place the blame for the mess of the last two years exactly where it belongs, on the shoulders of Donald J. Trump and the people who enabled him. Even better, as I pointed out to Tiff, my fears of a cult of Biden developing here have not borne out, and Tiff was right about people easing off the wholesale aggression after being asked to do so and after the elections were over. Wholesale, because there is still a lot of reasonable, justified aggression out there. Offenses continue to pile up every day, and even on his way out Trump and his troupe have continued attacking the country. It’s unreasonable to not be angry at them, and all of those cheering him on.
But I’m still sitting here as a camel who had the last straw break his back weeks ago. I’ve been trying to focus on a little hope at the end of the tunnel, and every time I’ve been able to work up some enthusiasm, some more straws get dumped.
As you can see, the Owl was written last night, and this piece is running today, so I’m still here. Maybe this pleases any given reader, maybe not. But if it does, and you want me to stick around, I ask this: help us shift to what we were always intended to be. Imagine this as a forum run by center to center-right people who want honest, thoughtful, and respectful communication between all people willing to engage in it. And if you see someone you like slipping into extremism, try to nudge them away from the edge.
